How to Balance Hormones in Perimenopause with Endometriosis and Long COVID – LIVE Client Case Study (Part 2)

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:00:03) – Hi and welcome to the Integrative Women’s Health Podcast. I’m your host, Doctor Jessica Drummond, and I am so thrilled to have you here as we dive into today’s episode. As always, innovating and integrating in the world of women’s health. And just as a reminder, the content in this podcast episode is no substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment from your medical or licensed health care team. While myself and many of my guests are licensed healthcare professionals, we are not your licensed healthcare professionals, so you want to get advice on your unique circumstances. Diagnostic recommendations treatment recommendations from your home medical team. Enjoy the episode. Let’s innovate and integrate together. Hi there, and welcome back to the Integrative Women’s Health Podcast. I’m your host, doctor Jessica Drummond, founder and CEO of the Integrative Women’s Health Institute. So last week we got started into a very interesting and I think important for our times case with one of our women’s health coach graduates and Alumni Association members, Hallie Murray. And you can find her at Oral Emery Comm.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:01:29) – She really gave us a very insightful and complete story of what has been going on with her health that we’re seeing all the time in our clinic. This intersection, an overlay between an autoimmune or chronic inflammatory condition that might be underlying, and then the person transitions into the perimenopausal years, which are somewhere in the years between 35 and 55. They vary from woman to woman. And then in the last four years, increasingly, we’re seeing people in our clinic with more severe or moderate long Covid, which can last from months to years. And it’s very reminiscent of the other chronic post-viral syndromes that people have been struggling with for years, with things like chronic Epstein-Barr virus, Lyme infection, etc., etc.. Me, CFS and the presenting complications are things like dysautonomia and histamine issues. Mast cell activation syndrome particular to long Covid. We have things like micro clots and viral persistence, which we also have in some of these other post infectious syndromes. So if you’re dealing with a chronic inflammatory condition or an autoimmune condition or chronic post-viral condition, we always have to take that seven step, step by step system to unwind all of the complexities of that by helping the systems get healthier and healthier.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:03:01) – So orally told us her story last week. We put it into context of our seven step system for helping people heal. And in this episode, we’re going to get deeper into some of the solutions that or we can start to implement into her life. Some of these things she was already doing based on having a lot of knowledge herself, and then expanding on that to things she could continue to do to get deeper levels of healing, system by system, by system, and integrating the piece of the puzzle around the nervous systems interaction with the immune, digestive and even endocrine systems. And the more people can help modulate that neuroinflammation and hyper reactivity of the autonomic nervous system, and potentially in long Covid, even infection of the vagus nerve, there’s more and more, deeper and deeper, more and more healing that happens. So again, download this episode. Feel free to take notes, listen to it multiple times, and let’s see if we’re on the same page. If you learned something new, if you would have done the same things in your clinic, if you have other things to share with us, absolutely leave a comment on our YouTube channel.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:04:30) – Send us a note through our social media channels. Send us a note to support at Integrative Women’s Health Institute comm. I think having complex conversations like this is what podcasting is so valuable for. So let’s get into the episode and we’ll talk about some of the important key things to take away from this on the other side of our conversation. Okay, so for you, the sort of protocol would be if I’m going to kind of put on my clinical nutritionist hat and my clinician hat, one is the nervous system regulation that’s foundational. That needs to be continuing restorative yoga breathwork practices, mindfulness practices and in the moment, practices based on just moment to moment need to kind of shift back to that calm aliveness, take a break, lay in nature, do five minutes of breath work integrating that not just as a practice, but as a day to day kind of support strategy. Then step two, I think it’s sort of a combination of a few things. One is first we have to open the pathways of detoxification because with an underlying symptomatology or underlying condition of endo.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:05:57) – And with Covid we know the toxic bucket is. Too heavy. And what are all the toxins that can be contributing? Well, it’s environmental toxins. It’s things like microplastics and air pollution and water pollution and heavy metals. And then there’s the infectious toxins, chronic infections, another Covid infection. You know, whether you have a history of EBV or CMV or anything else. And we can measure all these things. But I’ve kind of learned that that’s sort of unnecessary. Like all of us carry some level of infectious burden. And then there’s the stressor of nutrition and activity that we have a little more kind of direct control over. For most people with long Covid, we can get really granular with the nutrition plan. For some people, fasting really helps because it’s that autophagy cleanup of that. You were saying, like you have a sense that at a deep cellular level, things are damaged. And we do have to integrate some autophagy strategies to clean up the zombie mitochondria, the zombie cells, and we’ll circle back to that.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:07:13) – But fasting is one way that can be done. So for many people with long Covid, it feels valuable to fast, sometimes just intermittent fasting, which I recommend for people in perimenopause after they have some stability in their endocrine system and their stress resilience system, the hypothalamus, pituitary, adrenal system and thyroid or just make it a kind of a normal fast verse, which would be just 12 hours overnight, is a good place to start. There are other tools that help clean up those zombie cells. If fasting feels too debilitating because it can actually be a form of stress if we go too deep. There are some people who really thrive post-Covid on a ketogenic diet, which is at some level the same thing. And there are others who just we also want to optimize the composition of the gut microbiome, which is a key part of the immune system, to protecting us from a future infection, from being as severe. You now have some degree of immunity, but, you know, this virus is mutating all the time.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:08:24) – So we want to really build our own systems as well. So what are you currently eating and how are you feeling about that?

Aurélie Maire (00:08:33) – It’s mainly plant based. I’m not, you know, a meat eater. And I was never one. So what I added it’s electrolyte and bcr. It was really helpful. But I mostly eat you know fruits vegetable the rainbow colors in the plate.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:08:54) – Beans. Are you having beans grains.

Aurélie Maire (00:08:57) – Beans, grains, nuts a lot of nuts and seeds and seeds. And once in a while I will eat some fish. And also, you know, a lot of water. And I found, you know, in the process that electrolytes and vka. It was really helpful.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:09:20) – That’s good. Okay. So that nutrition plan is very supportive of a diverse gut microbiome, which is going to be really valuable in this case. The thing we have to be mindful of with a plant based, relatively carbohydrate heavy diet is blood sugar and stability. And also given that you have low testosterone.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:09:42) – So this can be very healthy, but we want to make sure you have enough protein and enough fat. So the nuts are good. We can do avocado. We can do olives olive oils fish. Occasionally you’re doing a branch chain amino acid supplement. We could also do another plant based protein powder supplement, collagen powder supplement creatine supplement, which is going to promote that like muscle building because muscle again we have to do it slow because we can’t do like jump into heavy lifting, but starting to rebuild that muscle, the amino acid bank of having more lean muscle mass is protective for kind of any future, anything from a fall or an injury or something like that to another infection of any kind. So I love that foundation. And then I would recommend that you wear a continuous glucose monitor for 2 to 4 weeks, if possible, and see kind of what the blood sugar is looking like. Any thoughts on that?

Aurélie Maire (00:10:48) – Yeah, I have one. I have to put it, you know, on my arm.

Aurélie Maire (00:10:53) – So I will. And also I noticed that, you know, fasting is not really helpful for me. I can feel, you know, this fatigue is not supportive, you know, in a way. But I think also adding more protein or vegetal protein would help. But still, you know, I can build muscles. I can feel I had it also some progressive weight, you know, training and it was more functional and I could, you know, feel the difference.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:11:25) – So that felt good for you. It didn’t really cause too much crashing.

Aurélie Maire (00:11:29) – Because it’s really progressive and very slow. But still, you know, my muscles works and yeah, but it’s really progressive and. Yeah. But regarding you know, the nutrition I totally agree. So adding another source of protein because you know also in in lentils and other things, maybe that’s not enough or I need more. And also when if I’m entering you know in the menopause. So I we need more of that.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:12:01) – Yeah absolutely. There’s so many things overlapping that I think would have you benefit from building muscle gently.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:12:09) – And it can be in lots of different ways. It doesn’t have to be like CrossFit, powerlifting or anything like that. Exactly what you’re talking about. And in fact, with the disorder Amia, one of the challenges is strength training in an upright position because you’re going to have that blood pressure, heart rate dysregulation. So I have found that a lot of people do better with slow, progressive exercises close to the ground, Pilates style, or just in positions that there’s a bit more parallel to the ground, so that we’re stabilizing the autonomic nervous system from a cardiovascular and blood pressure. Also pre exercise could be really valuable to do the electrolytes some salt water something like element element electrolytes. There are lots of different good brands of electrolytes. But those that emphasize sodium are going to help with that adrenal stability. So you’re kind of endocrine stabilization and stress resilience which exercise is a controlled stressor and to nourish the disorder anemia. So I think those minor tweaks. And then the other thing I was thinking between the blood pressure dysregulation and the fact that your vegetarian people primarily are at least a pescatarian, people who are not eating meat, I find, benefit the most from a tool called peptide bio regulators, which essentially are these oral bio regulator peptides that all of the research has primarily been done in Russia, although there’s some US based longevity research using peptide bio regulators.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:13:50) – And they are basically organ meats in a capsule of different and they’re well raised animals. So they’re good quality but they’re of different organs. So for you, given the blood pressure, blood sugar, well, more of the blood pressure challenges and the energy challenges and the vascular challenges. The three that I would start with are thyroid vascular and the kidney for the blood pressure. So I’m forgetting the kidney one, I think it’s called pilot tax. The thyroid is theologian and vent foret is one for the vascular system. So that could add this like boost. And I would do two capsules of each daily. I would do it for 3 to 6 months and then kind of go off it for a couple of weeks and see how you feel. If you need to go back on it, you can, but it might just restore those organ systems enough, because the thing that we do know about Covid, we have data that for up to at least a year, however long they stopped the studies with every study, Covid viral reservoirs can live in absolutely any organ or cell system, so the virus can continuous damage to organ systems, even if we’re not really feeling it on a macro level.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:15:15) – So I think those systems could probably use a little bit of support given your blood pressure challenges particularly, and the fact that you do well with electrolytes and things like that. Thank you. You’re welcome. So that nutritional protocol, will the heavy, complex plant based diet will really feed a beneficial gut microbiome. And that protein support will build that resilience from an immune and metabolic standpoint. And then as we can add some strength training that also really helps with the metabolic component. Now how is your digestive function? Do you have any symptoms bloating constipation, anything like that?

Aurélie Maire (00:15:57) – I have after the coffee. It’s just some pain, you know, on the upper abdomen. And yeah, maybe for a few days or two weeks I took some digestive enzymes and it was really helpful. Then I stopped and it was okay. But you know, my bowel movement is very regular and elimination is really good. And I don’t have pain, even if sometimes I would heat some, you know, bread or, you know, gluten, I don’t feel it’s fine.

Aurélie Maire (00:16:32) – And in a sense it brings me also some kind of energy. But yeah, it’s okay. So I take care also of, you know, chewing also being in a calm environment. So I’m very sensitive and much more not to, you know, the light noise, smell people I cannot tolerate, you know, having too much people around or crowd and so eating you know in a column space.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:17:04) – Yeah. Nice mindful eating.

Aurélie Maire (00:17:06) – Yes a chewing. And then I also, you know, take a break just lying on the side and then just lying, maybe for five, ten minutes if I can. And it’s helpful. And yeah, this side is I would say okay okay.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:17:23) – That’s really good. And it’s so important. And you said a few key things there with that mitochondrial pressure, that low energy. Sometimes people don’t have enough stomach acid and digestive enzymes and other digestive juices because it takes a lot of physiologic energy to make those so supporting with digestive enzymes. Vinegar about teenage bitters. Things like that can really help with digestion.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:17:50) – But the most important thing is to do exactly what you said. Eat mindfully, eat slowly. Chew. But for those people who can’t, who are living with long Covid and little children or, you know, super busy jobs or whatever, do you use the digestive crutches, the digestive enzymes and betaine and apple cider vinegar, bitters, things like that. All right. So your digestive system is functioning well. We’ve talked about some refinements to your nutrition. We’ve talked about the nervous system. The next step is I would be thinking about your energy since that’s one of your key goals. So I’ve used a lot of mitochondrial support in people with long Covid. And I think there’s two things we have to address for you. One is vascular health. And your vascular system does seem to be compromised given some of your symptoms. The kind of blue hand, the little hematomas everywhere, the fatigue, which could be a result of micro clotting. So one would be and especially because you also have underlying endometriosis, there is a genetic snip called pi1 or spine, one that makes people a little more likely to have trouble breaking down fiber analysis.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:19:09) – So you get more adhesions, more biofilms around chronic infections, and things like that, which can help to hide them, or chronic yeast, things like that. So one is the mitochondrial buildup. So the tools we use for that are things like CoQ10. I really like a tool called mitochondrial energy by designs for health, because it has CoQ10 and support and tools to support the entire Krebs cycle. So back to the Krebs cycle. We’re always circling back to the Krebs cycle. So the energy transport chain right. Electron transport chain. So so that’s right. So little mitochondrial energy usually within a which is actually created from a healthy gut microbiome being fed all the colorful berries and pomegranate and cranberries and things like that. But there’s no way to measure if you have the gut microbes that produce your life. And a and some people have them, some people don’t. So it’s helpful. We can feed our bodies that just in case we do lots of colorful berries, pomegranate, cranberry, things like that. And use a Euro like in a supplement when you have significant mitochondrial challenges.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:20:31) – And one of the brands that I’ve used is called Midas Pure. I’m sure there are other good ones out there. Mitochondrial energy. I’ve also used things like mitochondrial. So several mitochondrial support supplements, and then my absolute favorite in Long-covid, which again, I think many people are going to need multiple of these when we have multiple energy deficiency conditions, because endo can also be an energy deficiency condition, as can perimenopause. So the other one I really like is NMN with resveratrol, which is a strong anti-inflammatory. So NMN is nucleotide mononuclear. It’s you know it’s nicotinamide mono nucleotide. It’s a form of a B vitamin. And it’s a precursor to NAD. And some people have had any added or injections. I just have found that Niman with especially combined with resveratrol is more effective. And there’s like a chest pain side effect to NAD injections or IVs, which can be stressful for people that have these cardiovascular issues of post Covid. So let’s not do that to people and mess up their systems more and use the NMN, which is it comes in powder form.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:21:55) – There may be some liposomal forms. I really like that. So there are a suite of tools for the mitochondria, in addition to all of these nourishing foods that support the mitochondria, including things like amino acids, which you’re getting in your branch chain, amino acid supplementation we can use in protein powders, meat, fish, you know, all of these strongly bioavailable amino acid resources. So then we’re thinking about clotting and stickiness, right? The biofilms, the inflamed kind of adhesions, which can happen with endo. And there are several proteolytic enzymes that seem to work. There’s a study going on right now at Mount Sinai looking at lumbar kinase and long Covid. So you take these proteolytic enzymes or enzymes that break up these proteins that form adhesions and biofilms away from food, because otherwise they’ll just function as digestive enzymes and break down the food. But if you take them an hour before two hours after a meal, then it’s going to start breaking down these tissues. Now, again, especially with long Covid or other chronic viruses, we want to go really slow because we don’t want to just release all of this infection into the system when the immune system is weak.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:23:17) – So lowest dose possible. So lumbar kinase is under study for long Covid. We don’t have the results of that yet. So we’re everyone’s kind of just doing this by educated guesses. Lumbar kinase kinase. Natto kinase I’ve used a plain protease from transformation enzymes has just a general protease enzyme. Rich foods like kiwi, ginger, pineapple, papaya. So you’re eating this diverse plant based diet. You can include really enzyme rich foods. Also, green juices are very rich in enzymes. So the raw greens. And then another product is Woburn Xylem, which I have used because I’ve had a lot of pain with my long Covid. And Woburn enzyme is best studied as a proteolytic enzyme for orthopaedic pain. But I find it works great for headaches for kind of the like even the neurovascular pain of long-covid. So Woburn enzyme is another version. It’s a German proteolytic enzyme. And then the one that’s most used for endometriosis is Sara peptides. Again, no clinical data. But we do have some survey data that about 13% of women with endometriosis use Sara peptides to help manage their pain.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:24:37) – And it’s probably breaking down some of those inflamed adhesions. So I would sort of at this point, the best thing we can do, especially with a person of your knowledge, is intuitively choose a place to start. Have you used any of these proteolytic enzymes?

Aurélie Maire (00:24:53) – I think that I use as a digestive enzyme. I use a NATO kinase, and that I just feel I would try, you know, with any chain restaurant. And I meant sorry and also cut them. I think that’s a good support to.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:25:13) – And also really good for women post-Covid who are struggling with fertility. And there’s a whole other peptide bio regulator protocol for fertility that works really well in like early perimenopause, even late perimenopause or women that their fertility have been knocked out by long Covid. So we can get into that in another episode. But anyway, so something to break up the biofilms, adhesions and micro clots, which will help with energy too, because there’s a sense of oxygenation to the tissues when micro clots are broken up with things like natto kinase or lumbar kinase.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:25:50) – And so I’m really excited to see the results of those studies. But in the meantime, we’re just using them in an educated guess sort of way also for that vascular nourishment. Because oxygen delivery is one of the key problems with long Covid is things like beet powder, greens and reds powders. There is a vascular and arterial lining support supplements called vasc NOx and our tiro sil, which are made by calorie company Supplement Company. There’s a similar one that designs for health too I think, also called basket knocks. So these are kind of components of greens and reds, powders that are really strong polyphenol nourishment for nitric oxide and healing of the lining of the vessels. So some of the post-Covid vascular pain is probably a waking up, if you will, of lime, because sometimes lime Bartonella infects the neurovascular system, those really delicate kind of tissues, endothelial tissues and the nerves themselves. So we’re just slowly trying to get those guys back in the in the cell, quiet back down. But in the meantime we can keep working on the inflammation with those kinds of tools.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:27:09) – And again, a very colorful plant based diet. Beet powders, greens, leafy greens, green tea, fish oils or vitamin D are also really good tools. A lot of people with long Covid just have a lot of inflammation. You’re not dealing with that quite as much because of your lifestyle was so dialed in, but something to be aware of, kind of the next level while things are still flaring.

Aurélie Maire (00:27:39) – And I really appreciate also all the recommendation and also that you said, you know, when we break down all these things and we have this elimination process, we want that to move, you know, out of the body and not, you know, circulating, you know, inside. And sometimes I see, you know, it’s forgotten, you know, the process. So, we have to keep that in check also.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:28:09) – Yeah. So circling back to that a bit. So this is why it’s so key that all of our clients are having great bowel movements. You’re doing a good job with that.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:28:17) – Sweating as we talked about breathing through the nose particularly the left nostril can calm the autonomic nervous system but also promotes nitric oxide dilation of the vessels, which is really healing for the vessels. So breathwork is also a form of elimination. And then circling back to what you said about kind of your breast vulnerability, we do want some tools to move the lymph. So dry brushing, lymph drainage, massage, self-massage everywhere, including the breasts, the breast, fascia. There’s a technique that my visceral physical therapist taught me recently because I think the breast and cardiac related fascia are very intertwined. So especially for people who are having a lot of anxiety or heart rate irregularities related to this, you can actually kind of hold the base of the breast and stretch it up, which actually is a form of fascial release to the entire ribcage, cardiac fascia. You can do it with breathing. So if you don’t have any manual therapy background, if you’re not a physical therapist or manual therapist or a craniofacial therapist, you would really benefit from seeing one as a part of this, because moving the fascia, moving the lymph is a really deep form of cellular elimination, rebounding, rotational movements, like you said, just moving yoga.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:29:42) – You know, when we’re sick we kind of sit like this all the time, right? Like we lose this sort of like just opening stretching. Because when you’re. Tired and you’re trying to just kind of like work and go to bed. You miss some of the full range of motion that actually helps with cellular detoxification. And that includes various kinds of breathing, deep breaths, circular breath, breathing into the back body. We could have a whole episode on kinds of breathing, but I recommend seeing a skillful yoga teacher, women’s health coach, manual therapist, visceral expert. Therapist, cranial sacral therapist, facial mobility therapist. Like getting the tissues really moving. But if you don’t have access to those people, you can do dry brushing. There’s great videos on. And even if you do do all these things, like the more we move the lymph, the better. But there’s a wonderful physical therapist on YouTube, her monikers cancer, and she does a lot of great videos on dry brushing and massage and lymph drainage, massage and gouache, all of these things are really, really good for us.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:30:54) – And we can do them at home, know very little cost. And then there’s a company that I think is out of Canada, but it may actually be the US called Physica Energetics, which is homeopathic strategies to keep moving the lymph. My favorite is a combination of the adrenal milieu, because many of us are under a lot of stress in this kind of constellation of endo perimenopause, long-covid drainage milieu, which is about that cellular drainage. And they have three lymph products. Lymph. One is like when things are acute, when you’re detoxing through the skin. So if you’ve got acne or eczema or things like that too, if it’s a bit more chronic, and three, if it’s really chronic, if you don’t know where to start, start with two. In your case, I would start with two for about a month, and then I would actually go to three. As long as you’re eliminating really well, like let’s get deep into the cells to do more detoxification if you will, lymph or cellular mobility okay.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:31:58) – So we’ve addressed detoxification digestion microbiome to support the immune system nervous system regulation. And so finally the last sort of recommendation category in a case like yours would be immune resilience. And a couple of things are really key to this. The pre and probiotics. You know when you’re doing a lot of that with food, there are a couple of probiotics that have been shown to help eliminate Covid in the system. And these are spore based probiotics. Tundra or I don’t believe we have a clinical trial on Mega Spore, but it’s a very similar product to tundra. So that can be good. And then the prebiotics inulin or Microbiome Labs that makes mega spore also makes a prebiotic, which is called mega pre. It’s a number of prebiotic fibers. The only time I’m a little cautious with going directly to kind of those strong probiotics is if someone has mast cell activation syndrome, which is really common post-Covid. Sometimes it’s the cause of the dysautonomia. Do you feel like itchy, burny hives sensitive to everything? Do you have any sense of that?

Aurélie Maire (00:33:20) – Sometimes, you know that’s more on the skin, even some old simple oil.

Aurélie Maire (00:33:25) – Sometimes it happens, but I don’t know if it’s because of the vascular system and because when I’m outside it can be really hot. Inside it can be, you know, a cold and I put something on the skin. Maybe that’s a reaction.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:33:42) – So it’s worse if you’re in the heat. So I would say that that’s a borderline presentation. Could be and it may not be full blown mast cell activation. It may be more of like a less severe histamine reaction. So I would probably start with a gentler probiotic in that case. And my favorite one for people that are kind of reactive in a histamine way is it’s by seeking health. It’s called probiotic histamine X. See if we can tolerate that. Maybe even just open the capsule and have a little bit and then keep nourishing the gut microbiome. Slowly though, we want to be able to give some deeper. And I’ve been able to tolerate this over time, but certainly couldn’t at the beginning. And sometimes we need to really stabilize those mast cells. So for people who are really reactive, sometimes this trick contributes to the disorder for peace.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:34:40) – Sometimes it contributes to burning. We see it in endometriosis with bladder burning, with vulva burning and pain. So it doesn’t even have to be long Covid. With long Covid, it can be vascular. They’re burning. It can be just joint pain. This is the immune system being out of balance, being overreactive. And so we have to be careful of like, immune stimulators. I’m really gentle with things like immune stimulating mushrooms. I mean, doing that a little bit is probably okay, but better to sort of balance the immune system with beneficial prebiotics and probiotics, but going really slow so we’re not feeling the burn in any of these areas or breaking out in hives or things like that, or having trouble sleeping, breathing, shortness of breath, things like that can be related to this. So sometimes we need a mast cell stabilizer pick. Notional works really well, has been studied in endometriosis as well. Quercetin is one of my favorites like douse yourself in buckets of quercetin and it’s also an autophagy inducer.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:35:45) – So to help clean up the zombie mitochondria, you know, vegan French onion soup, there are supplements like deist and historicist things like that. And then I’ve found medications like Ketoprofen. Ketoprofen is good because it’s a mast stabilizer, not just a histamine blocker. So if we’re only using H1 and H2 blockers, sometimes the system begins to just make more histamine because the receptors are blocked. But if you also stabilize the mast cell with either ketoprofen, which is compounded orally, or Crumlin sodium, you know, and again, these things have to be taken for a while before the system begins to unwind. And it may be something we’re on for a longer term, but then some of these other things can progress. Taking more powerful probiotics really help settle the immune system. And the other key tool I’ve used to settle the immune system, which I find really valuable for my patients with endo and long-covid, is low dose immunotherapy. It’s kind of a homeopathic version of allergy shots to just make the system less reactive. Again, we all have these things, right.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:36:57) – We all have mold exposure, we all have yeast exposure. We all have not all of us have chronic, you know, a Lyme. But 95% of us have Epstein-Barr. You know, a lot of us are living with these things as a part of the terrain without bothering us at all. Like how many people live in mold? 80% of the United States homes have mold. So pretty much everybody but not everyone is reactive. And that’s what the low dose immunotherapy can do. So I recommend working with doctor Ginger Nash in the United States. There are other people who can work with you, but that would be useful potentially as well. For you. I think it’s a bit borderline. You can try and see if you can tolerate some of the probiotics, and you may not need such an aggressive mast cell stabilizing, but adding like some quercetin, more onions, more apples, pick notional for a month, something like that, to just sort of settle down the immune system can be helpful. How does that sound?

Aurélie Maire (00:37:58) – Good.

Aurélie Maire (00:37:58) – And thank you for all these recommendations. I’m really grateful for this. And yeah, I have a different direction also to go. And that’s a really good insights.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:38:12) – Yeah. And you know it’s tricky because this is a really deep and vast protocol that I’ve suggested. And we never do this all at once. We’re doing this kind of just for the show here to give everyone an understanding of how we address this. But you’re very knowledgeable. You know, you’re in our alumni association. We talk all the time. We can implement this one piece at a time, especially in a sensitive situation like endo long-covid perimenopause, because we have to see how the system responds and how quickly because sometimes it’s responding just fine. But we have to be patient with it. All right. So we’ve regulated nervous system. We’ve balanced we’re working on optimizing gut microbiome digestion is great. Your energy. We’ve got some tools to improve that. And we’ve got immune settling balancing strategy. The other key thing is to protect ourselves from way too much exposure.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:39:13) – And this is a tricky challenge in the current environment. But for people who have had, as I say, an abusive relationship with long Covid, right or with Covid, it’s wise to take some precautions. You know, meet people outside. Outside is always much better than inside or just if you’re inside, open the windows. Use air cleaners. Wear masks when you’re in populated indoor places. I mean, I go to all of my daughter’s theater shows and I wear a mask. I go to the stores, I wear a mask. You know, you don’t have to wear it 24 over seven. There is some risk to chronically. Dealing with, like having a microplastic thing on your face. It’s like. But you know what? We can reduce microplastics in lots of other ways. We can stop wearing microplastic leggings and flipflops and all of those things. Right? So lower the toxin load in places where it’s easier and protect ourselves with N95 and K N95 masks, certainly on airplanes, public transportation, things like that.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:40:18) – If they’re indoor settings where people need to communicate. You know, I think where we all have to come to is our level of calculated risk in a way that just feels comfortable for us. We’re not going to be able to fully avoid this and have that joy and connection that we want. And there are lots of antiviral herbs, so if you’re in an environment where you’re going to be more exposed, where you either can’t wear a mask or you’re actively choosing not to wear a mask, you can take antiviral herbs I’ve used told of. It is the absolute best for long Covid, although that company I don’t think is existing anymore, so I’m hoping there’s going to be something to replace that virus, said you know, mono Lauren lysine. There are lots of antiviral herbs that at least give us some lowering of the viral load, potentially of either Covid or other viruses. And there are tools that sort of quote unquote, kill Covid. So let’s say I’m giving a lecture in a large conference or something like that, or you’re teaching a yoga class and for some reason you can’t open all the windows or you can’t wear a mask or whatever.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:41:34) – You can do that, you know, whenever possible. But let’s say it’s not going to work out or you choose not to. There are 4 or 5 different nasal sprays on the market that lower the viral load rate in the nose. You can use CPC mouthwashes to rinse it from the mouth. You can use luma eyedrops to rinse the eyes afterwards, so we can link some of these things in the show notes. But having layers of protection. So ventilation distance from people, you know. So a lot of times when I’m lecturing to a big conference, I’m like away from people because I’m up on the stage, right. Ventilation and big conference rooms check the carbon dioxide levels. And then when it makes sense, wearing Kn95 or N95 masks, a lot of times that’s much simpler than it seems. And it can really save us those of anyone, really. Because like I said, you and I happened to get hit with this at whatever time of vulnerability. But this can happen to literally anyone at any time of any age.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:42:41) – And so we have to be mindful. And there are more and more ways to do that. And then, of course, you know, choosing to actively treat those infections is a conversation to have with your doctor or your provider. Because we also have some antiviral tools, you know, none of them are perfect, just like our vaccines were not perfect. But there is value in a lot of individual situations.

Aurélie Maire (00:43:09) – Yes. And it’s a good reminder also that you made that, you know, just to have these preventive measures and protective measures, because that’s my case. So I tend to forget that Covid or other viruses are, you know, in the air and are circulating because we don’t talk so much, you know, as we did during the pandemic. And so we tend to forget also that. So just to remind you, you know, you’re in a plane or, you know, in a crowded space or inside and you have a lot of people, you know, we can protect also ourselves and and also to protect the human system and, and all the other systems.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:43:58) – Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So it doesn’t have to be a widely stressful experience. It’s just like, oh, look, we have all these tools. Let’s mitigate as much as we can in a way that feels also connected to others, at whatever level that means for us. And it’s also a kind things to do. You know, you never really know how compromised the people are around you, or who’s dealing with cancer treatment or anything else that could be going on. So it’s not that difficult. And we have these tools, which is unusual in history, so we might as well use them. And like you said, it’s not just Covid like it’s great also not to get the flu with a compromised immune system or a cold or anything, but it is something that we have to build some kind of. Relationship with because these things were no longer in the pandemic, if you will. But this virus is endemic, which means it’s always going to be here and it continues to mutate. So if we’re continuing to live ignoring that it exists, that’s not really ideal either.

Aurélie Maire (00:45:13) – So just to live with it.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:45:16) – Yes. So to wrap up the final three steps in our process, we kind of build these recommendations into a schedule of your actual day to day. Then we make sure you get support, which is step six, which you just talked about a little bit around your husband, like, oh, I see your body batteries at 12. Let me see if I can help you. You know, so that’s super important to get your closest people on board and then layers of people as appropriate. And then to keep revisiting. So step seven is balancing a lot of the things we’ve already talked about, like health with living, health with joy and connection. It’s a moving target that has to be kind of reassessed regularly.

Aurélie Maire (00:46:11) – Yeah, that’s really a dynamic process. You know, you start to do all the things. So that’s not the end that just, you know, dynamic. We are dynamic beings. You have also all these dynamics also in the nature. And so yeah yeah that’s a dynamic process I would say.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:46:31) – Yeah for sure. And you’re in a dynamic physiologic state of life in that now 45 to like 52. There’s going to be these hormonal dynamics through the perimenopause and menopause transition. And we know you have low testosterone. Now we’ll see what happens with the continuous glucose monitor that may get in your blood sugar optimized may resolve that. But you may need some testosterone support or some maca to help nourish the adaptogens, to create more for your body to to release more testosterone. And your estrogen will at some point decline and your progesterone will at some point decline. So hormonal supplementation in alignment with adaptogenic supplementation, which means supporting that whole system of the endocrine system, the adrenals, the thyroid, you know, testosterone and estrogen. Progesterone is a dynamic thing that we have even more tools that we haven’t gotten into today. And we’ll get into another episode because this is very, very intense. Also a whole other topic, but I think that’s also key to remember as women who may be transitioning through pregnancy, postpartum, perimenopause, menopause, the physiology is also dynamic.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:47:51) – So we have to check back in regularly.

Aurélie Maire (00:47:54) – Yeah. And listening to our body and also yeah just to take the time to rest, pause. And you know even at the perimenopause, menopause or different stages in life. So we tend to be busy to have a lot of, you know, maybe depression or activities and that’s for our good just to assist, maybe pause and to take care of our health and well-being and happiness too.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:48:25) – Yeah, yeah. And just pause and reassess. Like what makes us happy? What’s most important? All of that. Excellent. Well, thank you so, so much for being so vulnerable and sharing your story. And I hope this felt valuable to you.

Aurélie Maire (00:48:43) – Yes. Thank you so much. I’m really grateful and I will keep you posted. Also with yeah in the few next weeks and months. So thank you so much.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:48:54) – Yeah. And you’re welcome. You’re welcome. And remember, for those of you listening that this is a longer dynamic process, this kind of support that we do with our clients is going to take a minimum of six months up to, you know, I mean, it can be off and on lifelong, but six months to two years is kind of a normal phase of someone really learning how to integrate all of this into their lives.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:49:17) – So don’t feel overwhelmed and firehose by this really deep conversation full of lots of to do’s, if you will. This is a dynamic, slow supported process within this container of health coaching that we’re very patient with. There’s absolutely no rush.

Aurélie Maire (00:49:38) – So that’s really step by step. And so we can integrate this, you know, in our daily life in a sustainable way.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:49:48) – Yeah. Excellent. Well thank you so much for being here everyone. Thank you. And thank you for being such a wonderful guest and we’ll see you everyone soon. Bye bye.

Aurélie Maire (00:49:59) – Thank you. Bye.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:50:04) – I hope you enjoyed our conversation about this really important case study for our times. This is so common right now among women in their 30s to early 50s, because we are having this challenge of the intersection between perimenopause, underlying chronic illness, and the new acute illness that’s becoming post-acute or chronic in and of itself. This can be really complex and it can feel overwhelming. I think the other thing that’s really frustrating about this kind of condition right now is there’s no quote unquote cure.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:50:44) – There’s no one treatment, one surgery, one medication. You know, there’s not a simple cure. What there is, though, is the ability to as you notice, we went step by step, system by system, nervous system, detoxification system, digestive system, the immune system and the intersection between all of these systems the neuro immune system, the neuroendocrine system, how the immune system interacts with the digestive system. And so very simple strategies like breathwork, yoga, nutrition, mindfulness, movement, manual therapies, supplements, detoxification support which can be anything from making sure someone has a great bowel movement to making sure they’re gently sweating a few times a week, can begin to put people back on the path of what I like to call the upward spiral of healing. I learned that from another practitioner who I’m forgetting his name right at the moment. But when you’re dealing with multiple complex, chronic challenges at the same time, and there’s not just one quote unquote cure solution, right? Because very often that’s not how healing works.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:52:12) – Instead, we want to get someone a foothold on this healing upward spiral. And the good news is that early had so much information and training, she had done a women’s health coaching. She’s an expert in yoga for endometriosis. She’s been involved in our alumni association and taking a number of our advanced courses. She was already applying a lot of these things to herself, and this is the exact same kind of client we see in our clinic as well, because there are these multiple layers of complexity that we and our clients need to have the patience and support to understand how to unravel over time. And it’s challenging. It’s a long term commitment, but the alternative is sort of staying stuck or even getting more into a downward cycle as things continue to deteriorate because nothing gets easier or better or healthier simply with age. In fact, usually that can make things more difficult. So I hope you enjoyed that case. Please leave me a comment on our YouTube channel under this episode about kind of the number one thing you took away from this episode, or any suggestions how you might have handled this differently.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:53:35) – Were we on the same page? Were we on wildly different pages? I would love to hear your insights and what you’re able to take from our conversation. Right back to your practice tomorrow morning. Thanks so much for being here. Please share this episode with your friends and colleagues and absolutely any woman. Be tween the ages of 35 and 55 who might be struggling with any number of chronic conditions, especially if she’s also entering that perimenopausal stage. This is a time where we have to really have a lot of supportive tools in place to make this a time of feeling even more, well, feeling better and better and not feeling stuck and struggling. Thanks so much for joining me for this episode of the Integrative Women’s Health Podcast, and I’ll see you next week. Thank you so much for joining me today for this episode of the Integrative Women’s Health Podcast. Please share this episode with a colleague and if you loved it, hit that subscribe or follow button on your favorite podcast streaming service so that we can do even more to make this podcast better for you and your clients.

Dr. Jessica Drummond (00:54:56) – Let’s innovate and integrate in the world of women’s health.