Herbalism for Fertility for Women and Men with Liane Moccia

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:00:03 Hi and welcome to the Integrative Women’s Health Podcast. I’m your host, Doctor Jessica Drummond, and I am so thrilled to have you here as we dive into today’s episode. As always, innovating and integrating in the world of women’s health. And just as a reminder, the content in this podcast episode is no substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment from your medical or licensed health care team. While myself and many of my guests are licensed healthcare professionals, we are not your licensed healthcare professionals, so you want to get advice on your unique circumstances. Diagnostic recommendations treatment recommendations from your home medical team. Enjoy the episode. Let’s innovate and integrate together. Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Integrative Women’s Health Podcast. I’m your host, Doctor Jessica Drummond, and I’m thrilled to introduce you today to Liane Moccia. She is a registered professional herbalist with the American Herbalist Guild, and she is also an author. We’re going to talk about her brand new book that is coming out later this year, in late fall of 2025.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:01:26 We’re going to talk today about herbal medicine for fertility. Herbalism, I think, is such a valuable tool because it’s the kind of thing that as your clients learn to use it for their menstrual health, for their fertility, for their pregnancy and postpartum recovery. It’s a tool that’s accessible and integrative with nutrition, with lifestyle medicine, and it just takes it to that next level. And with her deep professional training, she can very much personalize the herbal recommendations. So I can’t wait to share this interview with you. I want you to listen deeply to how herbalism can become an integration of science and art, working with the individual and unique person in front of you, and the individual and unique couple in front of you. And Liane is going to be giving a course inside of the Integrative Women’s Health membership. If you are not yet a member of the membership, you have got to join us. She’s going to be giving a course on herbalism for sperm health. Sperm health is not talked about enough. There is a huge issue happening right now in male fertility medicine in that young men have lower testosterone levels, have lower sperm counts, poorer sperm morphology than they’ve had in decades.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:02:55 The sperm health of men is actively declining. And that impacts not only couples ability to get pregnant, but it actually risks the woman having a higher risk pregnancy. Things like pre-eclampsia are related to the health of the sperm preconception. So when you’re working with female clients who are looking at menstrual health, fertility, health, pregnancy, postpartum, think about the couple as well and the influence of sperm health so you can join the integrative women’s health membership to gain access to our training. Deep dive training for professionals with Liane. But today, let’s dive into exactly how to use herbalism within menstrual health through fertility, pregnancy and postpartum. And I’ll see you on the other side of this conversation with one thing you can do in your practice this week to make it even better. Hi and welcome, Liane, to the Integrative Women’s Health Podcast. Let’s go ahead and dive in. What brought you to herbal medicine? What was the inspiration behind that?

Liane Moccia 00:04:14 Well, thanks for having me. And I think like a lot of practitioners, my path to herbalism started with personal events.

Liane Moccia 00:04:21 So when I was in my early 30s, my husband and I were trying to build our family, and I thought it would be easy, like a lot of people do. I quickly found out it wasn’t going to be for us. We had a bit of a long journey that involved working with fertility clinics I UI’s that weren’t successful. I went through three rounds of IVF and each round was canceled before we could even get to retrieval because I wasn’t producing any eggs, so I wasn’t responding to the medication. I was labeled a non responder, which I have personal issues with that term. I was officially diagnosed with diminished ovarian reserve. And after my third attempt at IVF, I was told I would no longer be treated. That this was the end of the road for me. And that was the point where I said, I’m not ready to accept that answer again. I had no formal diagnosis other than diminished ovarian reserve. I appeared and felt healthy in other ways. Sperm factor was ruled out. So that’s when I started looking at my own health from a different lens.

Liane Moccia 00:05:17 I started looking at it from a holistic way. I found a functional medicine doctor in the Boston area. We started working together and then I started also working with another IVF clinic in Boston area that was a little more open to holistic strategies. They had an in-person acupuncturist. So my story started to unfold. And in that next round of IVF at the new clinic, after working with a functional medicine doctor, I became pregnant with my twin daughters, and they’re turning 17 this summer.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:05:46 Oh, wow. Congratulations. That’s exciting.

Liane Moccia 00:05:49 So that really planted the seeds for me. I realized that there was another way to look at my health and the health of others. So after a few years, after my daughters were born and the dust settled, I went back to school and decided to focus on herbalism and herbalism and women’s health and fertility.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:06:05 Yeah. And so when we think about fertility, specifically from a functional medicine lens, which is how I’ve been practicing for the last 20 years or so, we’re kind of looking at systems biology, right? We’re sort of looking like how is the nervous system functioning? How is the immune system functioning, how is the endocrine system functioning, and how are those things related to each other, which is, I think, the big missing piece in conventional medicine, a lot of times are we’re not looking at the overlap between systems, because I was also trained from a conventional lens in my physical therapy training.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:06:37 So from an herbalism lens, and from your experience, how was the sort of diagnosis of infertility viewed?

Liane Moccia 00:06:48 I mean, very similarly, it’s looking at how all of those other systems are interconnected. And what is the clinical presentation? So when I meet with somebody I like to start with how is your digestion? What are some signs and symptoms we can look at? I spend a lot of time asking somebody about their menstrual cycle. What symptoms are they experiencing, what was it like for them when they were younger? A lot of people will come to me having just come off birth control pills, and we have to go back in time and say, well, what was it like before? Why did you go on birth control pills? Were you having painful periods? Were they irregular? Let’s sort of sift through what could be going on. And we also look at nervous system. And how are you making your way through the ups and downs of life. How can you be more supported? I think the nervous system is often overlooked in this work, and I think it’s important not just for hacking your fertility, which is what some people I think, think they think I’m stressing.

Liane Moccia 00:07:42 So therefore I can’t get pregnant and I couldn’t disagree more. That’s not what we’re doing. I want to support someone’s nervous system because it’s part of their overall health, and it’s going to help them weather the ups and downs of their fertility journey with more grace and ease if they’re feeling more supported. So it’s very similar in that we’ve got to look at the whole landscape, what’s the diet look like? And look for all these little clues and then start piecing things together.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:08:07 And so herbalism has the tools of herbal medicine. Are there some common ones that are utilized for optimizing fertility through these different systems?

Liane Moccia 00:08:19 Yes. So I love this question because you can Google, you know, herbs for fertility or even more commonly. Now go on TikTok and ask herbs. And I can’t tell you how often someone will come to work with me and they’ll say, I heard about this herb on TikTok. There are so many herbs that can help move us in the right direction with fertility. But the biggest point here is that not every herb is appropriate for every person.

Liane Moccia 00:08:41 So let’s talk about one of the most popular ones. Vertex chase strawberry I love vertex for many people, but it’s a very narrow window of people. It tends to be really helpful for people whose cycles are irregular. I see it helpful for people who are coming off of birth control pills, and their cycles haven’t really started yet, or they’re not cycling regularly. Vitek works through the HPO access or the hypothalamus pituitary ovarian axis, and it helps our brain communicate with our ovaries better so that we can start cycling and help with that hormonal cascade. So I think vortex is a classic one, but for the right person. So when someone comes to me and says, I’ve been taking vortex, but their cycles have been completely regular for years, I say, well, you know, you probably didn’t do any harm, but you might have wasted your money. Another one that I think I love to talk about that doesn’t get a lot of press is lemon balm. Lemon balm is such a well-known, I think, herb.

Liane Moccia 00:09:40 It’s known for helping decrease anxiety. It’s great for attention, focus. It’s uplifting. It’s happy. It’s also packed with phytonutrients. And one thing I want. Everybody I work with to make the connection between is that our eggs and sperm both need lots of antioxidants. So lemon balm is a really great way to nourish our body and our cells in that way, while also helping with our nervous system and helping us feel a little calmer and maybe be able to get through our day with more ease.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:10:10 Yes. And you know, from a functional medicine, functional nutrition standpoint, same thing. We’re always talking about antioxidants for egg and sperm quality. So everything from alpha lipoic acid to an acetylcysteine CoQ10, but also just diets full of berries and salmon and things like that.

Liane Moccia 00:10:32 Yeah. I mean, sometimes it doesn’t have to be hard. It can be just looking at your plate and saying, how can I put more greens and colors? How can I eat the rainbow? How can I, you know, make every meal count?

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:10:44 So for someone who might be struggling with this particular problem, where they’re really struggling to retrieve eggs through the IVF process.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:10:55 What were some of the things that are going to be common, whether they were in your case or not, that triggered that system challenge?

Liane Moccia 00:11:03 So we have to step back and remember the cycle that an egg goes through, right? So all our eggs are lying dormant in our ovaries. And then they go through this recruitment cycle. And then they have about three months or 90 days where they’re going through cellular division. So we really want to back up and give ourselves a little bit of time and say, how can we give our ovaries and our eggs everything it needs to produce its healthiest egg and recruit as many eggs as possible? So starting with that kind of framework, thinking about the things that are going to boost the antioxidants, I think ashwagandha is another herb that has some good studies surrounding it has even more studies for sperm, which we can talk about next. But sperm and eggs are very similar cells. Right. So helping somebody with something like ashwagandha. Recruiting more cells. Also looking at some of the things you mentioned, like CoQ10 has some great research, especially with IVF patients showing more eggs, being able to be recruited, higher fertility rates, even better implantation rates with CoQ10, fish oils, just making sure all of those things are present for people and then giving it some time, giving it a few months because we need those three months.

Liane Moccia 00:12:11 And I think also cycles are really important and sometimes we forget this, but our bodies work on these rhythms, right? There’s the circadian rhythm. There’s our monthly rhythms helping to reinforce those cycles, which I think herbs can be very helpful with. A lot of the people I work with are struggling to get healthy sleep, and they think that sleep is a bit of a luxury. It’s like, well, life is busy. I’d love to sleep better. I don’t, let’s just keep going and I want to bring them back to that. It’s there’s a whole hormonal cascade that happens when we sleep. That’s really important for our fertility.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:12:44 Yes, absolutely. And I think many people are very disconnected from the circadian rhythm right now because of screen exposure, not spending enough time outside. So if people are struggling with sleep at any time, whether they’re struggling with infertility or not. What are some of the herbs that are most supportive of helping people kind of reset that circadian rhythm?

Liane Moccia 00:13:09 There’s two categories. There’s the ones that are faster acting that are going to hopefully help you sleep right now.

Liane Moccia 00:13:14 And then they’re the ones that take a little longer, but they can really help reset that circadian rhythm. So some of the faster acting herbs that I love to lean on, I’m going to come back to lemon balm. Lemon balm is just such a superstar herb. And there was a study that just came out in 2024 that looked at a relatively slow dose. It was about 800mg of lemon balm given daily over a few weeks. And they looked at people’s sleep cycles. They looked at their REM versus deep sleep, and they found that people had better deep sleep and woke up feeling rested after several nights of using lemon balm. So I think lemon balm can be fantastic. We can take it in capsule form. If you know having a cup of tea doesn’t seem like a good idea before you go to sleep, and it’s something that it will help your brain sort of calm down. So that’s something I like for a more faster acting, but something longer term. I come back to ashwagandha. That over time helps really reset our circadian rhythms.

Liane Moccia 00:14:10 It works a lot through the HPA axis, so it’s an adaptogen. It helps us adapt to stress and over time can really help reinforce those healthy sleep patterns.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:14:19 Yeah, I love that. And I love that so many of these sort of plant medicines, if you will, have multiple uses, that all sort of align with the combination of challenges that people are struggling with when it comes to fertility. So I do want to circle back to male factor fertility and male fertility. I do think even in functional medicine and functional nutrition. That’s not talked about enough. You know, a lot of times women will go down, even in conventional medicine, a huge path of interventions before they even test the sperm. So let’s say you have a couple who maybe isn’t even struggling with fertility, but they’d like to get pregnant sometime in the next six months. We want to give them a little bit of time, but how can they both work together to maintain health? Because I think we’re seeing a lot of really interesting new data about how the male factor is influencing even things like preeclampsia and the health of the placenta and risk of high risk pregnancy.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:15:23 So talk more about that.

Liane Moccia 00:15:25 It’s really important. I don’t think we as practitioners should be having conversations with people about their fertility without talking about both male and female fertility. I think it’s really important. So I think if we have the ability to step back and start helping couples together. A lot of the things we’re talking about. So loading your body with antioxidants, some of the herbs that we’ve talked about at a high level, I think that’s really important. Thinking about sleep is also really important for sperm. So I’m seeing in my practice a lot of young, healthy men come in with borderline and low testosterone, and it’s happening more and more. You know, testosterone is interesting because it’s one of those hormones that can be really influenced by lifestyle factors. So sleeping well, weight bearing exercise, stress management is really helpful for testosterone. As a matter of fact, decreasing your sleep will bring down your testosterone. And then as your testosterone lowers, it’s harder to sleep. So it’s a bit of a catch 22.

Liane Moccia 00:16:25 So working with people to see that kind of holistic picture and then bringing in the herbs that are going to be most suited for that person I mentioned earlier, ashwagandha has a lot of really promising studies for improving sperm parameters. Some of the other herbs. I think green tea is often overlooked. It’s packed with phytonutrients. A lot of people are drinking caffeinated beverages in the morning anyway, so we can sometimes swap and say, well, you know, maybe one cup of coffee and then transition to green tea. And that’s a great way to get more phytonutrients. Another one that is surprising, I think is ginger. So there was a few studies showing that ginger actually helps improve sperm morphology, which can be a problem for people. And that can be as simple as ginger tea fresh pressed juices. It’s even available in capsule form.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:17:12 I love that. Plus, ginger tastes good. So, you know, that’s a nice gateway herb. Yeah, it’s a good start with your ginger shots and put a little lemon balm in there.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:17:21 And exactly I love that.

Liane Moccia 00:17:24 And I think one other thing I would say about sperm factor infertility is that a lot of people are afraid to test. And there’s a lot of emotional reasons that go behind that. It’s fear of the answer what if it’s me? What can I do? Maybe I can’t do anything. It can be embarrassing. And I really like to have the conversation early that says if there are things that show up, we can create a plan. And knowing will save you so much time and energy and money and heartache if you’re not focused on the right things. Because as you mentioned, 20% of the time it’s sperm factor only. So you’re wasting a lot of time and energy if you’re not looking at that. And then 50% of the time it’s a combination of male and female.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:18:08 Absolutely. So when you think about then sustaining the pregnancy, let’s say someone’s been able to get pregnant but has potentially suffered multiple miscarriages. What kinds of things are you looking at for pregnancy maintenance? And even if someone is able to stay pregnant generally, how can she help optimize that pregnancy with more nutrients to the developing fetus? Healthier Their placenta, easier labor and delivery.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:18:38 Things like that.

Liane Moccia 00:18:40 A couple things. If someone’s gone through some losses, I want to make sure they’ve had a conversation with their provider that looked at their thyroid, that looked at their vitamin D status, because we know that low vitamin D has been associated with first term miscarriages. So I want to make sure we’re not missing that. I also want to have conversations about some of the things we’re exposed to in our environment. So we know that increased bisphenol A, or BPA, has an association with higher levels of miscarriage in the first trimester. So we can’t eliminate all of the environmental exposures that we’re going to have, but let’s decrease the ones we can so we don’t have to stress about everything. I also like to talk to people about making sure their water quality is as clean and pure as possible. A lot of our tap water and even bottled water has exposures of pesticides and hormones and chemicals and things. So just making sure we have, you know, a good clean water filter at home. So those are some of the basics.

Liane Moccia 00:19:34 Six. Also reassuring people that our bodies know how to handle a pregnancy. And in general, assuming that we’ve kind of covered all our basis. Most of us are very resilient and are going to be able to carry a healthy pregnancy, assuming that we are being reasonable and giving it what it needs. So some of the things I like to work up with people is in that first trimester, I’m pretty conservative with herbs and take a very hands off approach, assuming that we are managing things like nausea with maybe a little bit of ginger food aversions and helping people get through that time. Once we get into that second trimester, that’s a great time to start bringing in some nutritious, nutrient dense herbs. Things like nettle or red raspberry leaf or oat straw. Those are just packed with minerals and vitamins that we may not be getting completely from our diet because it’s hard. And of course, we have our prenatal, which are helping bridge that gap. But I really like introducing strong, nourishing pregnancy safeties in that second and third trimester.

Liane Moccia 00:20:38 And then, of course, it’s managing all of the symptoms that come along with pregnancy and how we can reach for herbs before some of the over-the-counter options.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:20:47 Yeah. For example, minimizing pain or headaches or things with less use of Tylenol, which has some challenges in pregnancy. Things like that. Yeah, I like that perspective. And then what about postpartum? Is there anything that is very common in that phase for supporting recovery?

Liane Moccia 00:21:09 I love a lot of the topical herbs for recovery during postpartum. So things like calendula or something as simple as just a calendula ointment or cream can be beautiful for like vaginal healing, caesarean scar healing, even pain in the nipple area from breastfeeding. Topical herbs can be a really wonderful thing. And one of the things I like to help people with is have this ready before you deliver, because it’s really hard to make those choices afterwards. And then I will often think about a custom tincture for that postpartum period right after delivery that can help with some of the bleeding and some of the pain that can be associated after birth.

Liane Moccia 00:21:49 And having again that on hand, it’s often pretty customized for that person. Something we haven’t completely talked about. But there’s something with Herbal Energetics that each person tends to react differently to different herbs, whether you’re like a hot or cool constitution. So making sure we sort of match the energetic for the person and then helping them with a tincture to recover postpartum can be really helpful. And I also love pulling in herbs. If a person is nursing to help support nutrients and milk supply during that time, that can be really supportive.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:22:24 Yes. And so in your practice, obviously there are some of these herbs that are available as over-the-counter supplements. You know, there are certain companies that make them. But in your training, do you learn more about making custom teas, custom combinations of herbs, custom tinctures? Is this something that’s a part of what you do to be able to personalize and think about that full system approach?

Liane Moccia 00:22:50 I use a blend. I think it’s something that was part of my training, which is the customization, because everybody is very different.

Liane Moccia 00:22:57 You can have five people with the same symptom, but they’re going to need five different supports. There are a lot of really good quality brands out there that I can work with, and people can source them, but I also work with a custom compounding herbalist, so we can do custom tinctures if needed. We can do test custom teas, and that’s where it can be really. You know, you can kind of bring things to that next level because you can be very specific to what that person is experiencing at this point of time, knowing some people are on medication. So we have to avoid certain herbs or, you know, their past history. So it is wonderful when you can find options to be able to custom, compound and blend herbs.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:23:37 I love that. So anything else you would like to share about? Sort of supporting using herbal medicines through healthy menstrual cycles fertility. Pregnancy. Postpartum.

Liane Moccia 00:23:52 I think the biggest thing that’s important for people is that it’s never too soon to start. I work with a lot of people who are in that first year of trying to conceive, and they’re being told by a lot of their conventional medical providers that, oh, you have to try for a year and then we can work you up.

Liane Moccia 00:24:10 I want people to know that they have a little bit more agency over that, and you don’t have to wait a year. There’s a lot we can do early on to support both partners and help improve your chances of getting pregnant, and then to also have that holistic approach, which is herbs are going to be a part of a bigger plan. But we’ve got to look at everything that we talked about with nutrition and sleep and stress management and movement. And sometimes it’s functional. Labs and blood work are part of the workup. I think understanding your labs can be really important so that you can see the difference between falling in normal versus optimal. So I like to do a lot of education around that. It’s just important to take a holistic approach to a person’s fertility.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:24:51 Yeah I completely agree with that. So you now have two teenage daughters. Is there anything that you would recommend to them to help optimize their just menstrual health, whether or not they choose to eventually try to have children?

Liane Moccia 00:25:08 Yeah, we talk about this a lot in my house.

Liane Moccia 00:25:09 I’m never sure how much is sinking in, but every once in a while I hear them tell like a friend and I think, oh, they are listening. So one of the things we do in my house is for pain. For example, we look at what can we do first to support our body holistically and naturally before we jump to an Advil so everyone knows in my house we’ve got fresh ginger. We can always make a tea. That’s not always convenient. We have ginger capsules. Let’s try that if it progresses. Of course we can talk about Advil, but let’s try the natural things first. Everyone in my house knows how important sleep is. Above all things, I even say, you know, I know you have an important test tomorrow. It’s more important for you to get sleep tonight than to stay up late. Cramming. You know, we really prioritize sleep. It’s really important to think about the chemicals we’re putting on our body every day. And that is hard with teenagers.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:26:00 I know I have two teens.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:26:01 Well, one’s 21 now, but my 14 year old loves makeup and skincare and all that.

Liane Moccia 00:26:07 I love Sephora. They love. It’s a culture on TikTok of beauty products, so we talk about the choices. You know, I think they may be some of the only teenagers that understand the concept of an endocrine disrupting hormones, but like, you know, that perfume has phthalates and phthalates are going to disrupt your hormone. And sometimes it has to be very much. It’s not just about the long term effects, which of course, I care about, but you may notice a difference in your period this month. If you have a month where you drank a lot of sugary Starbucks and you had some extra perfumes, and dialing that in can be helpful. And the other thing that’s really important, I think, is it’s about taking positive steps in the right direction. It does not have to be perfect. It will never be perfect.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:26:52 I appreciate that. I think even just thinking about things like ginger and even calendula, you know, cream for period pain or I think having some of those things in our home medicine cabinet can be really valuable.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:27:09 You know, one of the things we’re often trying to do is teaching them how to take care of themselves. And by the time people come back to you in your practice, when they’re in their 20s and 30s or 40s, if they have had 10 or 15 years to just even if it wasn’t perfect. They were like thinking about taking care of themselves. I feel like the process is not as shocking to them to make these changes.

Liane Moccia 00:27:34 Yes. And also being aware of our bodies, I think when we were growing up, I did not have someone, you know, our school taught about periods, but they didn’t talk about understanding cervical fluid or what your luteal phase is going to feel like. That’s not discussed. And I try to make that not a taboo topic and talk about it in our house and with my daughter’s friends so that they know what’s happening with their bodies. So they’re going to be more in tune to when things are maybe falling a little out of balance.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:28:03 Yeah, yeah. And how it it’s their whole body, their mental health, their period pain, how it ebbs and flows.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:28:11 Yeah. That’s so valuable. Well, thank you so much for being here with us. I think this introduction to herbalism as a part of menstrual health and fertility is just so valuable for our practitioners, who either want to refer clients to you or want to learn more about quality, skilled professionals to refer to. Are there any professional organizations, or do you work with clients outside of your local area?

Liane Moccia 00:28:42 So I do work with clients virtually across the country. I do a lot of training and teaching to both practitioners and to the public directly. I teach a lot through the Herbal Academy, which is a wonderful reference for herbalism and other places. My website has a lot of information about that, and I try to keep things very current on Instagram. And my Instagram is @LianeMoccia. I also have a book that is publishing September of 2025. So depending when you’re listening to this podcast and it’s called the Herbal Fertility Handbook, and it is written for anyone who wants to improve their chances of getting pregnant, and also goes pretty deep for practitioners as well.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:29:22 Oh that’s fantastic. I can’t wait to read that. Well, thank you so much for being here. And thank you for all that you’ve shared. And I strongly encourage everyone to follow you on Instagram who’s listening here today. And even if you come from a functional medicine lens, some of these tools and skills can be really valuable in your practice, especially if you’re working. You know, we have a lot of people in our community who are pelvic health Pts and OTS and nutritionists and midwives and nurse practitioners who work with a lot of women in this fertility phase. So this is another tool that you can bring on to your team, collaborate with to help people get even better results in meeting their goals.

Liane Moccia 00:30:04 Thank you so much for having me. This was fun.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:30:10 I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Liane. I really think she brings such a calm presence to her practice and even to our conversation. And that is one thing. No matter what kind of practice, whether you’re practicing in herbalism, functional medicine, integrative health, physical or occupational therapy, pelvic health, if you’re a midwife, a nurse thinking about your presence when you work with clients who are struggling with something as traumatic as infertility, can make a huge difference to thinking about the tools that you use somewhat energetically.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:30:51 So I think it was really interesting that she talked about her training allows her to integrate a number of herbs, but align them more specifically with the clients that she is aiming to support. And then I think the other really important thing about our conversation that you can do right now in your practice is think about how you can educate your clients more understanding their bodies, their alignment with circadian rhythm, the interaction between the nervous and endocrine and reproductive system. And how early can you start educating the people in your community on menstrual health? Could this be something that you could step out and give a library? Talk on? One of my most successful marketing talks ever in my practice was actually going to the library and teaching moms of middle school and young high school girls about their menstrual cycles, because there’s very little that women are really taught about the full range of the menstrual cycle, you know, pain, emotional health, shifts in the hormones from the follicular to the ovulatory to the luteal phase. These are things that you and I know, like the back of our hand, but you will be shocked at how many people in your community just do not have this basic knowledge.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:32:12 It is not taught in most of our educational systems. So go out and spread the word. Read Liane’s upcoming book. It will be here in the fall of 2025. Follow her on Instagram and on her website and join the IWHP membership to access live or training with Liane. All about optimal sperm health and male fertility. I’ll see you there and see you right back here next week. Thank you so much for joining me today for this episode of the Integrative Women’s Health Podcast. Please share this episode with a colleague and if you loved it, hit that subscribe or follow button on your favorite podcast streaming service so that we can do even more to make this podcast better for you and your clients. Let’s innovate and integrate in the world of women’s health.