Burnout in Women’s Health? How Coaching Training Can Help You Sustain Your Career with Tamarah Nerreter

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:00:03 Hi and welcome to the Integrative Women’s Health Podcast. I’m your host, Doctor Jessica Drummond, and I am so thrilled to have you here as we dive into today’s episode. As always, innovating and integrating in the world of women’s health. And just as a reminder, the content in this podcast episode is no substitute for medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment from your medical or licensed health care team. While myself and many of my guests are licensed healthcare professionals, we are not your licensed health care professionals, so you want to get advice on your unique circumstances. Diagnostic recommendations treatment recommendations from your home medical team. Enjoy the episode. Let’s innovate and integrate together. Hi, and welcome back to the Integrative Women’s Health Podcast. I’m your host, doctor Jessica Drummond. Today I’m so excited to introduce you to our Women’s Health Coach Certification graduate, Tamara Narita. She is a women’s and pelvic health and orthopedic physical therapist. Physio as they say trained in Australia, works in Canada. She has been a really skilful manual therapist clinician for well over a decade.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:01:35 She’s also the mom of four children, so she has a lot of experience with pregnancy and postpartum, not just in her practice but in her life. And like many of the clinicians that come to us at the Integrative Women’s Health Institute. Tamara found herself burned out. And this can happen very commonly after the first decade or so of any job, but certainly a clinical job. There’s a lot of productivity pressure. There’s a lot of manual therapy, time and effort and energy. You’re in the middle of having children and raising young children oftentimes, or caring for aging parents or having other responsibilities in your community. Burnout is so, so common, especially as resources for health care dwindle. Health care systems are beginning to crumble all over the world, some worse than others. And so think about for you, if you’re coming to this work as a career changer as a person in clinical health care, but you want to shift from that burnout productivity mentality of like, how much can you just do to, quote unquote, fix people or serve the corporate healthcare machine.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:02:57 And you want to think about how could I slow down? Honor my own body and mind needs. Even hear them, even listen to what they are. Even get to hear what I want to do with my career and my life. While you actually shift your practice, shift your work to be easier and yet more valuable for your clients, for your patients, for anyone that you’re working with. I think tomorrow’s story and her evolution also capitalizes on another important thing. Tapping into your unique free square and Kathy Gross out. One of our master coaches taught me that the word free square just simply means like, what is your natural talent? Tomorrow is a natural listener. Always. People were like, oh my gosh, you’re such a good listener. And she didn’t think about taking that natural talent and then developing it with coaching skills. Just like if you know, you’re a little kid who’s kind of like a natural athlete, well, then you start training in a sport with deliberation and intention and precision and skill and a little bit of blood, sweat and tears.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:04:18 Right. Which, you know, coaching is just like any other skill set. It’s challenging to learn in some areas. And so she’ll talk about how our master coaches and our retreats and our processes and our training, and the fact that we do these weekly coaching calls is all of that support is needed. Just like if you were going to train as an athlete, you need that practice, you need that feedback, you need that support. You need the cheering on from your coworkers and colleagues and teammates along the way. So think about if you have natural aptitude towards listening towards mindful curiosity, towards just caring about people and being compassionate. Those are not just throwaway soft skills. Those are going to be the most, most important skills of the coming decades. There’s a lot I could say on that, but we’re going to save that for another day. If those are natural aptitudes for you, you need to develop the skill set of coaching, and it’s going to be one of the most valuable things you do.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:05:24 And you get to hear a little bit about why. So let’s dive into this conversation, and then I’ll meet you on the other side so we can make a game plan for how you’re going to use this in your practice and your life this week. Hi, and welcome back to the Integrative Women’s Health Podcast. I’m your host, Doctor Jessica Drummond, and I’m thrilled to introduce you to Tamara. She is one of the graduates of our Women’s Health Coach Certification program, and I cannot wait to share with you what she’s up to. So welcome.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:06:01 Thank you for having me.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:06:03 Yeah. So before you took part in our certification program, what was going on in your career? In your life? What were you up to?

Tamarah Nerreter 00:06:14 So I have been a physio for almost 20 years. I originally graduated from a master’s in Australia. I was an athlete, so I was very much interested in working with the athletic and orthopedic population. And I worked with professional athletes and all of the fun stuff. And then I was exposed, actually, I guess 20 years ago, to women’s health in Australia, which really didn’t exist much here in Canada.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:06:44 And so I came home very inspired to try to start to practice in women’s health. And I had some incredible mentors who told me, you know, just practice and physio for a while, get your grounds, like get to know the body and the bodies that you see. And about, I guess 14 years ago now, I was welcomed to do a training in pelvic health here in B.C. and that’s when my sort of introduction to, I guess, rather than being a female myself, our women’s health started to gain interest and momentum, and then I got pregnant. So that was also eye opening. I have four kids, so I’ve been working in pelvic health with a lot of orthopedic and sport bass as well, seeing any age from five up until the 80s. So it’s been pretty incredible working with all of the different life changes that people go through. So that’s sort of what kind of brought me to pursue a little bit more. In women’s health specifically. And I think, yeah, that’s sort of primarily what brought me to the program, along with an interesting event in 2021.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:08:03 So a little bit of burnout, to be honest. And then finding some incredible people doing the be the boss of your own career course and then getting a coach myself and working through all of that, it just sort of, again, inspired me to kind of build in a different realm of my practice.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:08:25 Yeah. So you already had this solid career foundation of orthopedic and women’s health and pelvic health physical therapy for more than a decade, and then your own experience of for pregnancies. And then you started to realize probably there were a few red flags before, but often women working. Busy moms who are in women’s and pelvic health do hit a wall at some point of that. Burnout is very common. And so for you, the next step was to start to explore. How could you change how you were working, including that personal experience of a coach? Was there anything about being coached that you thought? You know, this is a little bit different than what I’ve been doing as a clinician, but there’s something that it’s opening up in me that I didn’t really knew existed before.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:09:27 Yes. I mean, I’ve always prided myself in being very holistic in my approach to patient care. My whole body. I worked with Diane Lee for years, and that was obviously a huge foundation of my practice. But I think one of the things that I started to learn a bit more about myself through being coached. Was my ability to be a really good listener. And I think a lot of people have said that to me in like passing, but I never really took that and maybe understood what it meant. And, you know, people spoke of an energy and like just an ability to come in and feel comfortable sharing and talking. And I had that with my coach. And so I think that I was like, oh, wow. I feel like this is a whole nother level to being able to support people because I have been the counseling route because of, you know, other circumstances in my life. And I didn’t feel that that was what I needed because I did consider going and doing my master’s in counseling, actually, or coaching.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:10:34 And so I was like, yeah, no, that’s not where I feel like I fit, because I have this strong background, like you said, in women’s health and orthopedics, and I didn’t want to lose that piece of my practice either. So I think that was that sort of moment where I was like, oh, I think, I mean, other than impostor syndrome all the time haunting me. I felt like, you know, maybe I could do this. Maybe I could build this alongside what I’m doing and eventually reduce the hands on that. I probably caused the burnout and then, you know, move into something that provided a little bit more in the way of, I guess, a holistic practice, to be honest.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:11:13 And I think there’s something to be said for what you are remembering how people have sort of always thought you’re a good listener. You’re someone I can speak freely with. And that’s such an undervalued skill that sometimes, if it’s our Kathy Gross art, one of our master coaches always calls this the free square.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:11:34 Like there’s some of our skills and talents that we don’t even recognize as being valuable because they come so naturally to us, and then if we develop them, we really can be an elite level. But it seems like. Who even needs that?

Tamarah Nerreter 00:11:53 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And it’s not something I think because we’re, I mean, the programming that we’re brought through, especially with respect to academia, you’re not really I don’t want to say allowed, but you’re not really taught or encouraged to explore that side of yourself because everything’s so very much built on, like, you have to get this on this exam and this on this exam, and you need to perfect this and whatnot. So it’s you’re kind of drawn in a different direction with respect to that.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:12:21 Right. We sometimes think it has to be more technical, if you will, like the specific hands on skills or the counseling degree, versus an understanding that coaching is actually a skill set that you could have aptitude for, just like an elite or professional athlete, right? Like playing tennis or whatever is a skill set.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:12:46 But there are definitely some people who are more naturally able to do it and then take learning of those skills and amplify that next level. So it’s undervalued. But this was a natural talent inclination of yours. And then because it’s not like, oh, you can’t really get an A in it, there’s not like a listening class. It’s hard to see the value. So then you got to experience that value by working with a coach. So as you begin to take this skill set of mindful listening of reflections, powerful questions, overcoming barriers to change, habit, change, goals, vision, all the like technologies of coaching into your practice. Did it change anything about your sense of burnout?

Tamarah Nerreter 00:13:39 Yes. I think one of the primary things that I, I kind of learned to listen to myself a bit. I guess you could say, like, I learned to turn that around and think about, okay, what do I need to be able to actually, like, work every day and then be there present for my kids? And I mean, nothing’s perfect.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:13:59 I’m not perfect by any means. Like, you know, I definitely don’t listen to myself all the time, but I think that was one of the biggest things. Right? And I think I was told in Be the Boss of Your Own Career course, like, which I never did before, was like, okay, let’s really do a deep dive and evaluation of your values, like why you’re doing what you’re doing. And I mean, I kind of knew why I went into physio. I wanted to be a physio since I was 11 because I like to spend more time with people, because I had a physio myself and I’d go to the doctor and they’d be like two minutes and then I’d go to the physio and I’d be like an hour and a half. So I was like, oh, that’s kind of cool, right? So I think in the beginning I always had that curiosity and want to be with people for longer periods of time, but then going deep dive into those values of like, okay, why and why did I maybe burn out? And what was that about? And I saw that when I was doing my second Masters, when my fourth was a newborn, I was like, wow, okay.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:15:03 The I was actually burnt out then too, but it wasn’t something that I was familiar with because the second Masters, again, was very academic. It was a master’s in MIPs and orthopedics. So it was like, you know, again, along the lines of, yes, reaching that upper echelon of physio, but very academic. Right. So different.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:15:25 Yeah. And very technical, which is obviously you have a skill set in that as well. But the thing that felt more at ease for you was something that was hard to wrap your hands around. Like, what is this? How do I deepen that skill set? It’s not something that’s really emphasized. So once you then have that, you’re able to do deeper work with just your regular physio patients without having to spend so much time kind of like fixing them technically with your hands, because they’re starting to do some of the work on their own.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:16:02 Exactly. Yeah.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:16:04 So from a sense of burnout and career transition, now you’ve begun to listen to yourself, work on your boundaries, work on your presence, work on some of that imposter syndrome which everyone listening to this can, can relate to, right? Yeah.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:16:22 Where do you see how has your career evolved in the last year or so, and where do you see it going in the next five years or so?

Tamarah Nerreter 00:16:31 I think one of the questions that, you know, I had to think about before coming on was like, you know what? What kind of why this program kind of. Right. And so I think I had met you many years ago when you were speaking at IPS, and same with other clinicians and who have evolved in their careers. And, I think I was just really inspired by how it’s hard to go from that, like physio background to then transitioning into something that is realistically different, quite different. in, in many ways as we’ve spoken to. And I think I really appreciated that you had come from a background of academic. And, you know, I sort of aligned with that, but then had evolved into like a practice that was very much similar to sort of how I wanted to see my career going now at this point in this last year, Susan was my master coach and again, very similar process.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:17:40 And I had these sort of, I guess, moments, a couple of moments when I was treating patients and these patients were like master coaches, like one of them is been a coach for like 25 years, and she has a full practice, that’s all. Like, she’s not I don’t want to say all she’s done because it’s quite incredible and she’s extremely successful with it and she’s done some really cool things with it. And then another woman who is now retiring, but she teaches coaching at universities. And I was like, wow. Like there’s many different ways you can go with this. And so then once I finished the program, graduated the program, I started with my own coach again because I stopped that to try to figure out where I would like to evolve with it. So I’m taking my time because I feel like I don’t want to rush into just doing it, because I want to make sure that I have a good foundational understanding of how I want to proceed with it, so that I don’t end up in a little bit of a mess with, like, seeing people that maybe I’m not really wanting to see if that makes sense.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:18:54 So I think that’s been a really good sort of evolution through the program that I’ve understood about myself. Like, again, I’ve never had good boundaries as a physio. Like I want to help everyone and, you know, so I think this has been good because I’m kind of learning to set those boundaries and understand, not necessarily in creating a strict niche, because I get bored easily. So I don’t know if that would work for me, but like knowing what sort of area I’d like to evolve in, I think is sort of where I have gone in the last year.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:19:30 Well, and I think you bring up an important point is that this is a career health coaching that can feel vague because, you know, it’s doctor, lawyer, you go to college, high school, graduate school, whatever. There are counselors that basically say, like, do you want to be a doctor? Do you want to be a nurse? Do you want to be a lawyer? Like there’s things that are sort of everyone knows what they are.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:19:54 And even within those, there’s probably a lot of nuance that people don’t know what they are. But on the surface it’s like, here’s the sweet of careers, but coaching is a career that’s flexible, that’s nuanced. There are a lot of things you can take with it. You can be more focused in mental health. You can be more focused in chronic pain management. You can be more focused in women, families, education. You know, lots of people do retreats. Lots of people have small. More like what you’re talking about here. Like one on one. You like to be in it with a person individually, longer, more personalized. Some people have large coaching programs. So I think what’s so important about what you’re sharing here is that this is a wonderful and flexible and valid career, that you’ve actually had. Patients just like myself, just like Susan Clinton, one of our master coaches, like all of our master coaches, actually, who have had decades plus careers in coaching as a legitimate profession.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:21:02 And sometimes we just need those models.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:21:04 Yes. And it’s inspiring because it’s not that I don’t ever see myself practicing physio, but I do see the reality of it fatiguing the body as we get older and fatiguing, you know, the ability to be there for family and to be there for myself moving forward and my partner. And so I think it’s one of the things that I also love, the idea of the flexibility of it, creating a bit more of a flexible schedule and honoring the fact that I have quite a substantial background that I can provide for people because my background prior to physio is psychology. So it’s one of those things where I’m like, okay, imposter syndrome, yes, aside, but still I’m like, you know, I think I could do this and I could make a good career out of this, even though I’ve had a good career as a physio. Right. Yeah.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:22:01 And I think there’s also this we forget that at some level, adult life is long. People are always saying like, life is short, but you graduate from college.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:22:13 My, my daughter’s in college right now and you graduate from college when you’re like 22, 23. And then if you lived to You? 80. 90. That’s like 60, 70 years. You don’t have to do the same thing that whole time. But you can also kind of take what you’ve done. You know, maybe you’ve done ten years of this and 15 years of this and one year of this, and I’ve known people in my career journey where they’ve had kind of like 15 years of a career, but it was like one year repeated, like they didn’t really grow and learn. They just like showed up for 15 years. But what you’re talking about is you have training and experience in psychology and an understanding of psychology that you’ve at some level applied with your physical therapy patients. You have experience with sport, experience with having children literally, and then raising them experience with working with pregnant people and post-partum women and teenagers and girls with period pain. And, you know, you have all this experience, so you haven’t really had just whatever, 20 years of one year of the same thing each year.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:23:33 Well, it’s hard to recognize because there’s not a like a stamp of approval for it. There is this career development that you’ve had.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:23:43 Yeah. Which is I mean, always been my, I guess, in the back of my head as like a goal to always kind of evolve. And I think that’s why I was not feeling stagnant, but I was like, well, I kind of want to evolve from where I’m at. And I think the burnout was probably the trigger to kind of get me, you know, moving forward because I was like, I can’t do this anymore. Like, I can’t just be here anymore. Even though I wasn’t stagnant in my career with respect to like going to conferences and doing courses and always kind of making sure I was up on the research and stuff. It was just more like, I can’t just continue to do this right.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:24:24 It was hurting your your own health, essentially.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:24:29 Yeah, I would say so, yeah. And then, you know, understanding in the program, looking at all of the functional nutrition stuff I found very, very interesting.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:24:39 So that was really one of those moments where I’m like, oh, I could I could definitely learn more about this. I mean, there was a lot, but you know, there’s so much more.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:24:51 Absolutely. And that’s also just your nature, right? You’re like, oh, okay, I’ve been introduced to this now. I’m even more curious about it. Not like, okay, I’ve done this one thing now it’s enough, you know.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:25:02 Well, I think even at the IPS conference, you were speaking on nutrition and the importance it has in everything, like gut health and body health with respect to pelvic pain and all that stuff. And that was many years ago. And I was like, oh, wow. Yeah. You know, because obviously I don’t know about the medical system in the States as much as in Canada, but I am very well aware in Canada how it’s very P.C. and it’s not super collaborative. I mean, don’t get me wrong, there’s some physicians who are extraordinarily collaborative and, you know, love talking.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:25:37 And I think the nutrition piece is a huge part missing from a lot of care.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:25:45 Yeah. So talking a little bit about the program, what made you decide this program?

Tamarah Nerreter 00:25:52 When I was looking at different coaching programs, I knew that I did not want just a standard program. I knew that I wanted something that was accredited, maybe because of my background or, you know. And then I also Looked through like the layout of how the programs were done, and I valued something I could do while I was working. Something that was realistic with my four kids and my schedule, and then something that brought in a lot of the female health working in that realm of still women’s health issues that would then be supported through a coaching program. And so that was sort of the primary reason why I chose the program, because it coupled the first set of modules, which were more coaching with the second set. That was the functional nutrition, health and wellness piece. And I really liked also the fact that it was done virtually and that you had a master’s coach that you could work with as well.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:27:06 And then also the retreats. As hard as it was to sit a lot for me, I found those extremely valuable, and I knew that when I saw that those were a part of the program, I appreciated that. That was a very focused, I guess, time frame. And you could do them obviously, again, at your ease, but within the time frame as well. So I think those were the kind of primary things that I looked at in the program that were bringing together all the pieces that I wanted and valued, and it just had a bit more oomph to it than a lot of the other ones that I was looking at.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:27:45 Yes. Thank you for that. It’s so interesting to me that everyone is always like, yeah, when I saw that you have to attend a few virtual retreats. I love the fact that they were flexible and virtual, but I still thought, oh, I have to take, you know, two days and sit and commit to this. And 100% of people, when they leave this program, say that’s their favorite part.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:28:07 Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s unfortunate that the in-person retreats would be difficult because I think that would be even more valuable. But, I think it I think it’s, Yeah, I think that now that we’ve been allowed to be able to connect virtually, I think you can make it as valuable as you want it to be, right?

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:28:28 Yeah, absolutely. And absolute cheers to our faculty and master coaches, because they really do personalize each of those retreats to the people who attend them. So each one is a little bit different.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:28:42 Well, and you can actually feel that as well because you, you can get a sense that they try to get an understanding of all the different, like the diversity of the group and then how they’re going to deliver the material. Right.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:28:54 Yeah, I love that. So any stories about your current practice and how these new skills and your new insight into functional nutrition, but also the coaching skills, even though that was a talent you might have already had in terms of mindful listening.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:29:13 What have you noticed since you’ve really improved those skills? Any like improvements in your patients that were surprising to you or more ease in your practice? Anything like that?

Tamarah Nerreter 00:29:26 I think although I appreciated that I was a good listener. That has evolved even more so. I remember my coaching exam. I guess it would have been right. And I think I was doing my last practice, and Susan had said to me a couple things, and I sat with it and I was like, yeah, you know what? Like, I don’t I don’t need to jump in because like, as a physio, you, you kind of your physio mind jumps right to especially when you’ve had a lot of time in the profession, you can put the puzzle pieces together with just a subjective right. Then I was like, well, this is not just a subjective, this is more and I want to make it more for people. And I don’t want to just be like, you know, the saw. So, you know.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:30:14 And so I started to just sit with what people came in with like, and ask more open ended questions like, so what can I do for you? And even though they knew and maybe thought they were coming in for pelvic health, it didn’t have to evolve into like an immediate pelvic floor assessment or a whatever it evolved into whatever it was going to be that day. And it was really interesting because in a number of situations, especially with new patient care, it took its own evolution to what it was going to be that day, and it still ended with getting through a lot of the stuff that was important to get through. But I had more opportunity to sit and and just listen and understand the other things that may have been going on in their life, which were provoking some of the things that they were feeling and at the end of the sessions, the few sessions, the couple sessions that I’m thinking of, the patient was like, you know, I really feel like this has been more helpful than you probably even know because you just listened.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:31:19 And I think that was like, oh, like I always thought I listened anyways. But then, you know, so I think that’s sort of what I have noticed in my current practice that has taken even more of a shift for the positive.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:31:36 And thus it becomes so clear the value in people having that patient, non-judgmental, holding space, listening people can really feel it in the same way you felt it as a coaching client where you’re like, oh wow, I never even thought about how I wanted my career to evolve or why I was burned out. And you could certainly zoom out and be like, oh, I’ve had a 15 year career in this fairly intense and manual skill set. And I have four kids and I’ve been through four pregnancies and four postpartum, and that’s like easy to see to an outside server. But then there’s the nuance of what unique support do you need? What do you want to do with your next phase? And so I think this is what’s so fascinating about a career in coaching is that you see that a lot of times, even among maybe those 3 or 4 examples you’re just thinking about in your head, they were each a little different, even if on paper they might have looked very similar.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:32:41 Well, and I think the other thing that I saw is that people took more ownership of their session because they were talking out loud about the things that they wanted to see evolve for themselves. And then in that, they saw the value in what I was providing them with respect to release work, exercises, breathwork, whatever it was. Pilates or anything like that. And they saw the value in doing it. But also we were able to establish a way that they could do it. Because so many people get overwhelmed with a session, because there’s so many exercises, there’s so many, there’s so many that and I even evolved to going, okay, let’s pick 1 or 2 things without feeling like, oh, I didn’t give them enough. And so I think that has also been a big piece that I’m, I guess you could say, proud of, in the sense that I’ve been able to evolve from this idea of what I’m supposed to deliver in a session to like. Now it’s more about their session, right? Which is kind of neat.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:33:44 I love that. And it also keeps that onus of ownership and empowerment with them, which removes some of the burnout pressure on you.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:33:55 Exactly.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:33:57 Yeah. I love that for clinicians. We have so many people who are clinicians and many who either stay clinicians or hybrid. You know, and many who evolve completely into a coaching practice. But I think there’s a really valuable spot for this skill set. Even if you don’t change outwardly what your job looks like, because it just makes your job so much easier.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:34:21 Exactly. Yeah.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:34:23 Great. So anything you’d like to say to someone who’s thinking about doing this program and you know, we’re celebrating right now our 15th anniversary of this program.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:34:36 Congratulations. Thank you. Amazing.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:34:39 Yeah. And this is going to be our final cohort of this particular program in this form. And so it’s time to get off the fence. If anyone’s been thinking about it for ten years, which we do sometimes hear about in our calls with our potential students, anyone who’s on that proverbial fence, any words of wisdom for them.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:34:58 Although it might seem daunting to take the jump into something, I would say that if you’re ready to evolve yourself because I think that’s super important in practice and you want to deliver something that is really meaningful and diverse, because I think with the program, there’s a lot of opportunity to be diverse in your practice with coaching. And truly, if you believe that, you know, health is overall wellness. So the physical, the mental, the emotional. It really is everything, including career, right? I think that would be a really good reason for you to, you know, just jump right in and do it, because I believe that it provides the academic side, which for those academic people is great, but it also provides the huge component of really shifting into coaching and understanding how that is so important in life at this point for people too.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:36:07 Absolutely. Thank you so much tomorrow for sharing your experience and your patience. And clients are so lucky to have you.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:36:18 Oh, thank you.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:36:19 And I can’t wait to see how your career evolves.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:36:21 Definitely keep in touch with us.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:36:23 Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:36:25 All right. Thank you so much. And we’ll see you soon.

Tamarah Nerreter 00:36:29 Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:36:35 I loved that conversation with Tamara because it really highlights that many of us have natural aptitudes towards coaching, but we need to develop the skills we need to develop the pacing. We need to develop the communication skills. Exactly How to listen and hold space. Exactly how to ask the right questions. Exactly how much information to give at once. The pacing of change of behavior, change of helping people really navigate the complexities of behavior change that aren’t just entirely in their control. People can know a checklist of exactly what they are supposed to do and still not do it right. You might have felt that same way. Like, you know, you’re supposed to be doing X, Y, and Z, but for some reason you’re not. Of course, that’s part of human psychology and that’s part of why coaching is so valuable. So I guess what I’m hoping that you take from this conversation with Tamara is, first of all, listen, this is the last cohort of the Women’s Health Coach certification, barring any, you know, extremely surprising events.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:37:52 This is the last cohort. It is time to take a jump in right now. In fact, I’m going to say that flat out. This is the last cohort of the Women’s Health Coach certification. I know that in my bones. I’ve been doing this for 15 years. We are ready to evolve here at the Integrative Women’s Health Institute and do something a little different. In fact, I’ve been doing this for almost 20 years. 15 years is the formal celebration of the digital launch of this program. But I’ve actually been doing this work even longer. And why I do it is exactly because of conversations like these with Tamara. Like, you can just see the lightness, the excitement about the future in her career, the thoughtfulness, the fact that she’s really taking deep self-care of herself as she navigates her career and her life as a mother, as a partner. We rarely do that. We rarely have the opportunity to do that. We’re really taught to do that, that it matters as much how we feel and how healthy we are as to how much we give, give, give, as you know, workers.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:39:04 As clinicians. As parents. And so what I hope you’ll take from this conversation is just check in with yourself. What are some of your natural aptitudes? Do they align with coaching? Are you ready to be a world class women’s health coach? If so, we are exactly the right place to support you both academically and really challenging you in the communication skill set of coaching. And we have a lot more for you on the other side of that. A lot more support, a lot more community, a lot more depth of education. So just because this program is ending, the Integrative Women’s Health Institute is absolutely not ending, and we’re evolving into supporting you even more deeply and meticulously. So this is the time. And don’t devalue the soft skills. The soft skills that you have natural aptitude for are really what you need to develop. In the coming couple of decades, there are going to be increasingly important and increasingly valuable. Lastly, look at tomorrow’s career and her really insightful thoughts about the other careers she has observed myself, Doctor Susan Clinton, some of her patients who have multi-decade careers in coaching.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:40:29 This is a wonderful career and it may not be one of the top five careers people think about doctor, nurse, librarian, lawyer, whatever. It’s a diverse, it’s a flexible, it’s an exciting it’s a rewarding career and it’s available to you. And if you have this aptitude and it’s something you’re curious about, take advantage because it’s so much fun. And be thoughtful. Think about like tomorrow is doing. Look for this vision like you now have models and examples of people out there having very successful careers and coaching. And sometimes we don’t think about that if we don’t have any model. And Tamara is another brilliant model. She’s brought the coaching skill set into her clinical career, and she’s now evolving her career entirely to fit exactly what she needs, not what corporate medicine wants to tell her to do. You have that opportunity as well. So get your vision board out, get your journal out, get curious, and enjoy your career journey. Adult life can be a long and winding adventure. You don’t have to pick one career or one job.

Dr. Jessica Drummond 00:41:54 Focus when you’re 22 and do that forever. You can evolve. You can shift. You can completely change. It’s 100% up to you. I’ll see you next week. Have a great week. Thank you so much for joining me today for this episode of the Integrative Women’s Health Podcast. Please share this episode with a colleague and if you loved it, hit that subscribe or follow button on your favorite podcast streaming service so that we can do even more to make this podcast better for you and your clients. Let’s innovate and integrate in the world of women’s health.